और ज़ाहिर है, मैं यह अच्छी तरह जानता था कि जर्मन लोग एक हैं और खुद को एक ही राष्ट्र का हिस्सा मानते हैं; इसलिए वे दीवार को एक थोपी हुईकैद मानते थे। और मेरा सोचना बिल्कुल सही था।
And also, of course, I knew that the German people, they're one, and would tend to consider themselves as one; and therefore they would consider the Wall as an enforced imprisonment. And I was right in thinking that way.
And also, of course, I knew that the German people, they're one, and would tend to consider themselves as one; and therefore they would consider the Wall as an enforced imprisonment. And I was right in thinking that way.
पूर्व का कोई फ़ोरमैन यह अंदाज़ा नहीं लगा सकता था कि अगले दिन उसके पास कितने कामगार होंगे, क्योंकि उसके कई मज़दूर व्यवस्था छोड़कर पश्चिम जर्मनी जा चुके थे।
A foreman in the East wouldn't know how many workers he would have the next day, because part of his working force had left the system to go to West Germany.
A foreman in the East wouldn't know how many workers he would have the next day, because part of his working force had left the system to go to West Germany.
मैंने सिर्फ़ परमाणु युद्ध की संभावना को देखा ही नहीं था, बल्कि उससे बहुत ज़्यादा डरा हुआ था। अगर उन्होंने कोई सैन्य संघर्ष शुरू कर दिया, तो वह स्वतः ही परमाणु युद्ध में बदल जाता।
I not only saw the possibility of nuclear war, I feared it very much. If they started a military conflagration, it would automatically lead to nuclear warfare.
I not only saw the possibility of nuclear war, I feared it very much. If they started a military conflagration, it would automatically lead to nuclear warfare.
और इसका सबसे बुरा असर यह हुआ कि आलोचनात्मक सोच पर रोक लगाने से अर्थशास्त्र के क्षेत्र में भी स्वतंत्र सोच का गला घुट गया और अर्थशास्त्र के विकास में बाधा आई—जिसके परिणामस्वरूप पश्चिमी देशों के साथ आर्थिक प्रतिस्पर्धा में देश पिछड़ता चला गया।
And one of the worst effects was that by suppressing critical thought, it also suppressed critical thought in the field of economics and hampered the development of economics - and the country would fall back further and further in the economic competition with the West.
And one of the worst effects was that by suppressing critical thought, it also suppressed critical thought in the field of economics and hampered the development of economics - and the country would fall back further and further in the economic competition with the West.
पश्चिमी देश का एक लेखक मेरे पास आया और उसने पूछा कि इस प्रदर्शन में किसी ने भी जर्मन एकता की बात क्यों नहीं की? मैंने उससे कहा, क्योंकि यह हमारे एजेंडे में था ही नहीं। लोग तो एक अलग, बेहतर जीडीआर और एक बेहतर समाजवादी व्यवस्था चाहते थे।
A Western writer came up to me and said, how come nobody at this demonstration spoke of German unity? I told him, because it isn't on the agenda. People were interested in having another, better GDR, another, better socialism.
A Western writer came up to me and said, how come nobody at this demonstration spoke of German unity? I told him, because it isn't on the agenda. People were interested in having another, better GDR, another, better socialism.
हम पूरी तरह से उम्मीद कर रहे थे कि पेरेस्त्रोइका सफल होगी और बदलाव आएंगे। हम शुरू سے ही जानते थे कि समाजवाद केवल एक निश्चित सीमा तक आज़ादी और लोकतंत्र के साथ ही फल-फूल सकता है।
We certainly hoped perestroika would win out and that there would be changes. We knew all along that socialism could flourish only with a certain amount of freedom and democracy.
We certainly hoped perestroika would win out and that there would be changes. We knew all along that socialism could flourish only with a certain amount of freedom and democracy.
मुझे पूरी उम्मीद थी कि जर्मनी के पूर्वी हिस्से में, जिसे अभी-अभी जर्मन डेमोक्रेटिक रिपब्लिक कहा जाने लगा था, आज़ादी और लोकतंत्र के साथ समाजवाद की एक व्यवस्था विकसित होगी।
I certainly hoped that in the Eastern part of Germany, what was just beginning to be called the German Democratic Republic, you would develop a system of socialism with freedom and democracy.
I certainly hoped that in the Eastern part of Germany, what was just beginning to be called the German Democratic Republic, you would develop a system of socialism with freedom and democracy.
शुरुआत में पश्चिम जर्मनी में भी लोग किसी न किसी रूप में समाजवाद चाहते थे।
Even in West Germany in the beginning, people wanted a kind of socialism.
Even in West Germany in the beginning, people wanted a kind of socialism.
मुझे जब भी पहला मौका मिला, मैंने लेखकों की एक सभा में अपना बचाव किया और साबित कर दिया कि होनेकर का पूरा हमला किस तरह बेबुनियाद था।
I defended myself at the first opportunity I had, which was a meeting of writers in which I proved that Honecker had based his whole attack.
I defended myself at the first opportunity I had, which was a meeting of writers in which I proved that Honecker had based his whole attack.
मैं इस बात से बेहद नाराज़ था कि यहाँ की सरकार ने मीडिया और संस्कृति के क्षेत्र में गोर्बाचेव द्वारा लागू किए गए सुधारों को अपनाने से साफ़ इनकार कर दिया था।
I disapproved of the fact that the government here refused to adopt the few reforms that Gorbachev put over in the field of media and the field of culture.
I disapproved of the fact that the government here refused to adopt the few reforms that Gorbachev put over in the field of media and the field of culture.
शांति के मुद्दे पर लोगों ने आवाज़ उठाई और शांति के पक्ष में तथा युद्ध के ख़तरों, ख़ासकर परमाणु युद्ध के ख़तरे के ख़िलाफ़ प्रदर्शन किए।
In the question of peace, people spoke up and demonstrated for peace and against the threat of war, the threat of atomic war.
In the question of peace, people spoke up and demonstrated for peace and against the threat of war, the threat of atomic war.
अगर आप किसी ऐसी व्यवस्था में जी रहे हैं जो दमनकारी है, तो आप कभी तानकर नहीं चल सकते, हमेशा सिर झुकाकर चलना पड़ता है।
If you live in a system that is suppressive, you don't walk upright, you always go with your head down.
If you live in a system that is suppressive, you don't walk upright, you always go with your head down.
मुझे एक भी ऐसी जगह दिखा दीजिए जहाँ पूरी सरकार किसी लेखक की किताब को लेकर इतनी फिक्रमंद हो कि उस पर प्रतिबंध ही लगा दे।
Show me one place where a whole government is concerned with a book of a writer and is concerned enough to suppress it.
Show me one place where a whole government is concerned with a book of a writer and is concerned enough to suppress it.
पूरब के लोग हसरत भरी नज़रों से पश्चिम की तरफ़ देखते थे। वे वैसी ही सुख-सुविधाएँ, वैसे ही सामान और वैसे ही अवसर चाहते थे। वे ऐसी व्यवस्था देख रहे थे जो भविष्य के बस झूठे वादों के सिवाय उनसे सिर्फ कुर्बानियाँ माँगती थी।
People in the East looked toward the West with longing. They would have liked to have the same comforts, the same goods, the same chances. They saw a system that demanded of them sacrifices with nothing but promises for the future.
People in the East looked toward the West with longing. They would have liked to have the same comforts, the same goods, the same chances. They saw a system that demanded of them sacrifices with nothing but promises for the future.
दीवार असल में हार और हीनता का प्रतीक थी।
The Wall was the actual symbol of a defeat, of inferiority.
The Wall was the actual symbol of a defeat, of inferiority.
अगर समाजवाद को सफल होना है, तो उसमें ढेरों लोकतांत्रिक तत्व होने ही चाहिए।
You must have, if socialism was to succeed, a socialism with lots of democratic elements in it.
You must have, if socialism was to succeed, a socialism with lots of democratic elements in it.
जो लोग देश की वैचारिक गतिविधियों में सक्रिय नहीं थे, वे बिना किसी खास पाबंदी के अपनी ज़िंदगी जी सकते थे — बस फर्क इतना था कि वे अपनी मर्जी से कहीं आ-जा नहीं सकते थे। वे जब चाहें पश्चिम की सीमा पार नहीं कर सकते थे।
People who were not active in the intellectual life of the country could go on without feeling restricted, except they could not go where they wanted. They could not cross the border to the West whenever they liked.
People who were not active in the intellectual life of the country could go on without feeling restricted, except they could not go where they wanted. They could not cross the border to the West whenever they liked.
अगर हमें जीडीआर (पूर्वी जर्मनी) में एक नया समाजवाद विकसित करने का समय और मौका मिल जाता — एक ऐसा समाजवाद जिसका मानवीय चेहरा हो और लोकतंत्र हो — तो यह पश्चिमी जर्मनी के लिए भी एक मिसाल बन सकता था। तब हालात इसके उलट होते।
If we had had time and the occasion to develop a new socialism in the GDR, socialism with a human face, with democracy, this might have been an example also to West Germany. The development would have run the other way.
If we had had time and the occasion to develop a new socialism in the GDR, socialism with a human face, with democracy, this might have been an example also to West Germany. The development would have run the other way.
आज, जब हम यहाँ पश्चिमी लोकतंत्र कही जाने वाली व्यवस्था में जी रहे हैं... तो आपको हमेशा गंभीरता से नहीं लिया जाता। आप जो चाहें लिख सकते हैं क्योंकि किसी को कोई फर्क नहीं पड़ता। लेकिन उस दौर में, आपके लिखे पर बहुत ध्यान दिया जाता था, इसलिए वह एक बिल्कुल ही अलग अहसास था।
Today, when we live in a what is called Western democracy here... you're not taken seriously all the time. You can write what you want because nobody cares about it. But at that time, they cared very much about what you wrote, so that's an entirely different feeling.
Today, when we live in a what is called Western democracy here... you're not taken seriously all the time. You can write what you want because nobody cares about it. But at that time, they cared very much about what you wrote, so that's an entirely different feeling.
मैंने द्वितीय विश्व युद्ध के दौरान मनोवैज्ञानिक युद्ध का सामना किया है, इसलिए मैं अच्छी तरह पहचानता हूँ कि मनोवैज्ञानिक युद्ध क्या होता है।
I was in psychological warfare in World War II, so I know psychological warfare when I see it.
I was in psychological warfare in World War II, so I know psychological warfare when I see it.
मानवीय चेहरे वाले समाजवाद के विचार का मैं पूरी तरह समर्थन कर सकता था, क्योंकि यह पहले दिन से ही मेरा अपना विचार था।
The idea of a socialism with a human face was something that I absolutely could support, because it was my idea from the very first.
The idea of a socialism with a human face was something that I absolutely could support, because it was my idea from the very first.
सरकार आपको ये सारी चीजें मुहैया कराती थी — जिसके बदले में, ज़ाहिर है, वह आपकी आज्ञाकारिता की माँग करती थी। लेकिन आपको यह नहीं सोचना चाहिए कि लोगों के मन और दिलों में हमेशा गुस्से की ही आग सुलगती रहती थी।
These were the things that the government supplied you with - in turn, of course, demanding obedience. But you must not imagine that it was a constant feeling of outrage that was in the minds of people and the hearts of people.
These were the things that the government supplied you with - in turn, of course, demanding obedience. But you must not imagine that it was a constant feeling of outrage that was in the minds of people and the hearts of people.
और ज़ाहिर है, पश्चिमी जर्मनी में इस बात की पूरी कोशिश की जाती थी कि पूरब से आने वाले लोगों को नौकरियाँ मिलें और उनका जीवन स्तर आरामदायक हो। यह शीत युद्ध का एक हिस्सा था — और शीत युद्ध जीतने वाले पक्ष की एक चाल थी।
And of course, in West Germany, they made every effort that people who came from the East would get jobs and would get a comfortable existence. That was part of the Cold War - and part of the winning side of the Cold War.
And of course, in West Germany, they made every effort that people who came from the East would get jobs and would get a comfortable existence. That was part of the Cold War - and part of the winning side of the Cold War.
पूर्वी जर्मनी के बहुत सारे लोग कभी नाज़ी रह चुके थे, इसलिए उनकी सोच में पूरी तरह बदलाव नहीं आया था।
A great number of people in the East German parts had been Nazis, so the change of mind was not altogether there.
A great number of people in the East German parts had been Nazis, so the change of mind was not altogether there.
वहाँ सेंसरशिप थी। जब आप कोई पांडुलिपि प्रकाशक के पास ले जाते थे, तो आपको पता होता था कि वह उसमें बदलाव का सुझाव देगा। अगर आप वही लिखना और बोलना चाहते थे जो आपको सही लगता था, तो आपको इन तमाम दमनकारी नियमों के खिलाफ जाकर काम करना पड़ता था।
You had censorship. If you brought a manuscript to the publisher, you knew he would suggest changes. If you wanted to write and speak what you thought had to be written and spoken, you had to act against all these suppressive rules.
You had censorship. If you brought a manuscript to the publisher, you knew he would suggest changes. If you wanted to write and speak what you thought had to be written and spoken, you had to act against all these suppressive rules.